Extra Droopy Leaves.
My orchid has recently become very sad. Just sad. Her flowers have begun dropping, her roots are turning brown, and her leaves are super droopy. One of her leaves has turned brown, actually. Could anyone help?
#orchidlovers #rootrot #sicklepod
#orchidlovers #rootrot #sicklepod
0ft to light, direct
4” pot with drainage
Last watered 3 years ago
18
Best Answer
Hi 👋 I’m nervous about the water on the leaves. On the last picture, there’s a few drops very close to the crown. Phals are very prone to rot and if water drips down the leaves into the crown, or settles on the stem, they can get stem or crown rot and it’s almost always fatal. In the wild, phals lean so that when it rains, water drops off the leaves and away from the plant, so it’s not so much of a problem for wild orchids but it is a problem for our orchids and it’s best to never get water on leaves. When you water, it’s best to soak the inner pot, filling the pot up to just below the rim and leave to soak for 10-15 minutes, that way you won’t get water near the leaves, crown or stem.
As for your problem, it could be crown or stem rot, or root rot (root rot is the one you want it to be as it’s fairly easy to help them recover from it!). With the leaf that’s turning brown, is it the one I can see in the pictures at the bottom of the plant? The oldest leaf can die off naturally - they usually shed 1-2 leaves every year. However, the fact that all these problems are starting at the same time makes me think that it’s all connected. I would advise you to take the phal out of its pot and inspect the roots. If they are black and/or squishy and ooze water and also come apart and reveal the inner root (it looks like a piece of string!), that’s a case of root rot and it will need to be treated. You’ll need to cut off the dead roots, making sure you cut into dead tissue to help prevent infection. There are different options depending on how many roots you have left. Root rot is caused by overwatering or not giving the roots the wet/dry cycle they need. You said that the roots are going brown, do they look papery and dry? If so, that’s the opposite problem - that’s dehydration! If they green up when you water them, they are still alive. Both problems will make leaves droop. You would be very welcome to post a picture of the roots here and I should be able to give a more precise answer about what’s going on!
As for your problem, it could be crown or stem rot, or root rot (root rot is the one you want it to be as it’s fairly easy to help them recover from it!). With the leaf that’s turning brown, is it the one I can see in the pictures at the bottom of the plant? The oldest leaf can die off naturally - they usually shed 1-2 leaves every year. However, the fact that all these problems are starting at the same time makes me think that it’s all connected. I would advise you to take the phal out of its pot and inspect the roots. If they are black and/or squishy and ooze water and also come apart and reveal the inner root (it looks like a piece of string!), that’s a case of root rot and it will need to be treated. You’ll need to cut off the dead roots, making sure you cut into dead tissue to help prevent infection. There are different options depending on how many roots you have left. Root rot is caused by overwatering or not giving the roots the wet/dry cycle they need. You said that the roots are going brown, do they look papery and dry? If so, that’s the opposite problem - that’s dehydration! If they green up when you water them, they are still alive. Both problems will make leaves droop. You would be very welcome to post a picture of the roots here and I should be able to give a more precise answer about what’s going on!
Hi. @PotentialGreens Emily, your plant is overwatered. She has root rot and needs to be removed from the pot to have the blackened parts snipped away and then repotted in fresh orchid bark. Does your pot have drainage?
@PotentialGreens I'm sorry your orchid is not doing well 😔. I'm dealing with a case of crown rot in one of my phaleonopsis orchids, so I don't have any advice because I followed all the rules and it still happened. But maybe @MotherOfOrchids could help you? 🪴💗
Oh no! If you’re pulling it out anyway, full or semi water culture are options? During transition they usually lose their roots anyway and grow new ones, half the process is done and you will be able to track the rot and address any issues a lot more quickly than in soil. The plant can always be transitioned to soil again when it’s healthy. The most important part is don’t forget to add the nutrients a plant would normally receive from soil. Most sources say a couple drops of balanced 20:20:20 every few weeks and water to top up in between to prevent chemical build up and root burn. You can also add a couple drops of cinnamon water (1tsp unflavoured cinnamon in 1L for 12 hours, strain through a coffee strainer and store in airtight bottle/container. A drop or 2 of that with the fertiliser acts as an anti fungal. The same solution can be used as a root wash but you have to rinse the roots again after
To be clear, one of my orchids is struggling and I’m considering the same thing 3 months after being where this one is now…. The plant is just not doing great. My other one has a new leaf though so 🤷🏻♀️ they went through the exact same treatment and the one with the new leaf was on worse shape when I got them. I haven’t actually tried this myself yet, and I forgot that only the bottom 1/3 of the roots should be submerged and then allow to dry, there’s a few different schedules but it seems to work based on the individual plant rather than one set method. You rotate wet and dry days to the effect of 2 days wet, 5 dry but every single orchid is different apparently and you have to pay attention and adjust the schedule depending on the plant. It’s a fair amount of work in the beginning
@PoisonIvys cinnamon works as an antibacterial because it dries the wound and surrounding tissue, effectively making a seal so that infection can’t enter the plant. We view it as antibacterial and anti fungal, but technically it’s not - it’s the seal making quality that is! It’s a bit like a scab on a person! Because cinammon works by drying out the tissue and sealing it off, it actually can damage the velamen around the roots, which is very sensitive and damage to it prevents water absorption. It’s great for spikes and leaves but the advice is usually to keep it away from roots. It’s safe to flush the roots and pots with rain water or reverse osmosis water.
@LuxuryMint sorry that you have crown rot 😢. Crown rot happens when a water droplet has managed to get into the crown. Another common cause is that most phals, unless you get them from a specialist orchid nursery, come planted in a sponge plug which encases the central roots. Because it’s sponge, it retains moisture and that moisture can pass up through the stem and up to the crown, causing rot - even if you follow all the care instructions and I wonder if this is what happened to yours? When we get orchids, nobody tells us about these plugs until we start having problems.
@MotherOfOrchids Part of why I commented the second time, this is all gathered research (freaking hourssssss of it) not something I have actually done, I appreciate the corrections 😊 and will incorporate your advice into my methods. The cinnamon is a drop or 2 of a cinnamon water with the fertiliser once a month or so and straight water the rest of the time, you can’t really add more than that and I prefer the dunk and rinse method to be sure I remove any excess and it doesn’t stay on the plant too long but still helps. And I have never used it on orchids myself but it is mentioned in a fair few of the forums using some form of cinnamon derivative with orchids, usually diluted to about half of what you use for other plants I’m pretty sure I remember reading 😅 this has been about 2 months of just gathering data.
@MotherOfOrchids Thank you so much for your advice about crown rot. Looking back I think it could have been that a week ago i sprayed it with Orchid Myst foliar spray and I think excess liquid must have sat in the crown. I've seen those sponge plug things, I always remove them. This one didn't have one because she was a very large keiki from another plant. Also I don't think she liked her roots going from aerial roots to being enclosed in bark, a lot of them rotted. But she was looking perfect and I'm so sad to have lost her. Thank you so much for your advice, you are saving orchids with your information! 🪴💕
@PoisonIvys it really sounds like you’ve put the work in! There are a lot of studies, but I’m not aware of any specifically for phals or epiphytic orchids, though I’d be really grateful if you could point me in the direction of them. I love learning about phals. It could be that the science is different for epiphytes - their roots behave differently to non-epiphytes as they don’t absorb nutrients from the soil. They only absorb nutrients from being watered (which is why soaking the roots when watering is usually the preferred method as it gives the plant time to absorb the nutrients). It’s also worth looking at the Phalaenopsis websites as there are many sites that go as far as calling cinnamon a dessicant for roots. You could always do your own experiment - I do experiments on my orchids and test out theories (like whether it’s better for the plant and blooms to leave a spike after it’s finished blooming or cut it off). Perhaps you could have an orchid where you use cinnamon water and an orchid that you don’t - that way, you’ll be able to compare the roots and overall health of the plant. You’ll soon see if an orchid loves what you’re doing. I switched to RO water from tap water last year and invested in a good fertiliser without any urea and within a couple of weeks, my roots were growing much more thickly than I’ve ever seen them - I wasn’t expecting this at all, I just switched because tap water (I’m in a hard water area) was burning the roots!
@LuxuryMint ahhh, no. That’s really sad, especially when you’re using a product designed to help orchid! I mist my orchids too, but mainly in hot weather to increase humidity. It’s safer in hot weather because the moisture will dry very quickly so there’s very little risk of rot setting in. Another tip is to mist them early in the morning, so they have the heat of the day to dry out. I wonder if it would be helpful to transfer the spray into your own spray bottle, especially the type that you can control how fine the mist is. A finer mist will be absorbed more quickly by the plant…this is the bottle I use for misting and I set it to the finest mist!
@MotherOfOrchids thanks so much!! I’m so grateful for the cinnamon advice before I went ahead and used it for the orchids 🥺 that could have been dicey!! I was considering transitioning both orchids to fwc and despite all the reading I’m still not confident yet and there’s about another week before I make a decision for the unhealthy one about transitioning or trying a full root wash and repot again. I will see if I can figure out which particular article or forum I was on about phals and full water or semi water culture. I looked at a lot but I know there was at least one decent step by step aimed at phals. It mentioned them specifically vs other kinda of orchids known to do well in fwc. I have 2 phals and a random living root that came off at some point and just kinda stayed alive 🤷🏻♀️ I haven’t dug it out of the media again since I found it 😅 but the lil tip poking out is still alive lookin. I really need to google that. I have been so focused on the 2 plants health I only remembered writing this 😅
@MotherOfOrchids thanks a lot for the misting tips. It's great to have someone who loves orchids too for advice! 💕☺️
@MotherOfOrchids (I'm so sorry for not responding quicker!) I can post a few more detailed pictures so you can evaluate it better, you know a lot! The brown roots are thin and papery, but when I water her, they stay the same, so I think they're just dead? The water that's on the leaves is from a few sprits of Miracle-Gro Orchid Food Mist. I saw good reviews for it, so I wanted to try it out. I also just found some very promising nodes, so I think that's a good thing? I definitely think I've overwatered it. The leaves are VERY floppy and just kinda sad in general. The medium, as far as I know, is orchid bark. By soaking it, or having it soaked for a couple of days, do you mean literally having water in it - in a water filled pot for a few days - or just wet for two days? I'm slightly confused on this part. I also mainly raise succulents, so I am very scared of the idea of leaving a plant to soak😅
@PoisonIvys, thanks so much! I've heard of the cinnamon trick, but I never actually heard of distilling it! (Or draining, whatever the word is.) Thanks so much for the help. This is why I have Greg, people smarter than me know what they're doing😁
@PotentialGreens yeah cinnamon cold tea basically but @MotherOfOrchids pointed out some info I missed in my research about cinnamon and this kind of orchid specifically and honestly I would trust her advice over mine 😅 I would stick to super diluted as a root wash only if you’re going to use cinnamon and thoroughly rinse afterwards 😊 double check EVERYTHING about the cinnamon and phal orchids specifically before doing it though. I’m still looking for the specific site I was on that started me on this. I came across it looking at general info about fwc and honestly I look at a lot of sites 😅 but I have an eidetic memory so the moment I find it I will know and comment with it 😊 I’m close to the other info I was reading at the time so I should find it soon
@PotentialGreens you are very welcome! yes, please do post some pictures. The fact that the roots are papery sounds like dehydration rather than overwatering, but a photo will definitely help. How often are you watering? It sounds like you run water through the pot when watering, rather than soaking, and this could well be the cause of the problem if it is dehydration (it’s an easy thing to do!) Running water through the pot isn’t likely to give the roots the moisture they need to stay healthy and also the bark wouldn’t be able to soak up much water either, which would lead to the roots drying quickly. It can be really hard to find the right balance - I had no end of root problems in my first year of phal care, but it does click one day! By soaking when watering, I leave mine only for 10-15 minutes - I put the plastic pot in an outer pot and fill the outer pot up until just below the rim of the inner pot. After 10-15 minutes, I drain the water from the outer pot and leave the inner pot to drain. Then I don’t water again until the bark is dry and the roots have gone a silver colour. It’s actually safe to soak for a few hours, but I find that 10-15 minutes works best for my home and climate. The advantage of soaking is that it ensures that only the roots get wet, which prevents rot problems and also ensures that the roots get hydrated and the bark absorbs a lot more moisture too which helps the roots stay hydrated and healthy. Until the next watering, the roots and bark will slowly dry out and this is what needs to happen - that’s the wet and dry cycle they need! It’s like, imagine they are on their tree in the wild and it rains. The roots will get a drink from the rain and the water that the bark has absorbed will help keep them hydrated too. And then, in their climate, it could be days or longer before the next rainfall, so the roots dry out. That’s what we’re trying to replicate at home! I use a bamboo skewer to help me judge when to water because I’m still not so great at judging it! I keep the skewer in the pot and pull it out to test if watering is needed - when the skewer is dry or almost 100% dry and cool to the touch, it’s time to water. With the mist, still treat it as water - the plant won’t be able to tell whether the droplet that’s gone into it is designed for orchids or just water, and droplets like that often lead to rot. It should be a very fine mist as that will be quickly absorbed by the plant and won’t lead to problems. You could try putting the misting product in a nozzle bottle (I commented with a photo of the bottle I use for misting) that you can set to a very fine mist. The nodes are great if they are roots! That’s exactly what you need! But not so great if it’s a flower spike developing as the plant is too stressed for that right now. Roots tend to be more rounded and will grow anywhere, whereas spikes form a mitten like shape and will only form on the sides of the stem, under a leaf. Roots can grow there too, so it can be hard to tell them apart, especially when they are just forming, but if the nodes are anywhere other than the sides of the plant/under the leaf, that’s definitely a root and is great news!